Interview: Ambassador Peter Thomson, United Nations Secretary-General's Special Envoy for the Oc
❝ Radically changing our consumption and production is the answer for sustainability of humanity’s future on this planet. ❞
Recently, more and more countries and companies have decided to ban single-use plastic. What do you think is the turning points of these plastic movement? And what should we do?
Amb. Peter Thomson：I agree that we are observing change in this area. The UN Ocean Conference held in 2017 is acknowledged as the turning point on awareness of the ocean’s trouble and the need for concerted ocean action.
When it came to plastic pollution, just the visual evidence was enough for the public to become alarmed by this disgusting thing that was happening to our environment through the plastic plague. The graphic images of dense plastic pollution of the sea, beaches, and rivers made it easy for people to understand what was going on. Since then there many programs have emerged and much thought has been given to ridding us of the plastic plague. One of the strongest trends is the move to place sufficient value on plastic, so that it will be comprehensively recycled.
As you have said, many countries are getting rid of single-use plastic from their jurisdictions so that it doesn’t pollute their environment. They are rightly saying that we don’t need to have all this single-use plastic covering foods. The right plastic for the right use may be okay, but it has to be able to fit into a circular economy. There are many good things happening in the world today aimed at solving the plastic problem through the circular economy approach. I am sure we can stop plastic pollution of the ocean within the time-frame of the 2030 Sustainable Development Agenda if we really put the best of human resource into it. I’m feeling confident on that. By 2030, we should have conquered this challenge.
How did The Ocean Conference begin?
Amb. Peter Thomson：When the SDGs were being created through 2 years of intense preparation at the United Nations, the small islands developing states (SIDS), like my country of Fiji, pushed hard for an ocean goal to be created. Eventually SDG14 was adopted to conserve and sustainably use the ocean’s resources. Once it was created, we began pushing hard for the first UN Ocean Conference. Why? To make sure the implementation of SDG14 was getting all the support it needed to succeed. So, the first UN Ocean Conference was to principally to bring global awareness to the need for greater ocean action, and as a result we now see that all around the world. We have also pushed for the second UN Ocean Conference to keep the pressure on in favor of positive action. We have to keep the pressure on SDGs 14 implementation if we are going to restore life in the ocean to a healthy condition.
What was the challenging point to get consensus in the first Ocean Conference?
Amb. Peter Thomson：First of all, I think there was a challenge for us to make people realize that there is one ocean. There is a certain amount of H2O on this planet. Most of it is in the ocean. Many man-made boundaries are in a sense artificial when it comes to the ocean, think of fish migrations, ocean currents, rising sea levels, and so on. Thus universalizing the ocean’s challenges and solutions was a critical thing to get across.
The second was getting us all to think and act to do what was necessary to save life in the ocean. Fiji and Sweden co-hosted the first UN Ocean Conference, and after that we entered a partnership to co-lead a group called the Ocean Pathway that is pushing for the Ocean and Climate Change to be considered as one and the same in terms of problems and solutions, I think we have been quite successful in this as we approach the UNFCCC’s “Blue COP” in Madrid at the end of 2020.
How do you think Climate change and Ocean conference are related?
Amb. Peter Thomson：Yes, as far as the connection with the Climate Change and ocean change are concerned…yes, they are intimately connected. When you talk about climate change, whether you know it or not you are talking about ocean change at the same time, after all some 70% of a planet is the ocean.
Changes are going on in the ocean in a huge way because of the same anthropogenic greenhouse gas emissions that are warming the planet. The ocean is becoming more acidic with lasting consequences for life under water. The ocean is becoming deoxygenated - heat water and gas goes out of it, thus oxygen is gradually going out of the ocean, again with big consequences for life under water.
The third effect of our greenhouse gas emissions is ocean warming. Ocean warming means death of coral, change of ocean currents and upwellings, poleward movement of species, rising sea levels. So I say again, we shouldn’t talk about climate change without talking about the ocean being right in the middle of the conversation.
How do you think those ocean problems should be solved?
Amb. Peter Thomson：I recommend you have a look at the UNGA mandating resolution for the 2020 UN Ocean Conference. You can easily find it online. There you will find that the conference theme is the scaling up of ocean action through science and innovation. I point that out to you because young people entering university can go into ocean science, which will be one of the key growth areas in the decade ahead. We need hugely increased ocean science knowledge in order to make the really tough decisions we will have to be making around about 2030.
That leads to my second point which is that the UN General assembly has also mandated the “UN Decade of Ocean Science, 2021-2030”. Again, you can find all information on the Internet about the UN Decade. From perspective, and hopefully from a young person’s perspective, that is your decade – ten years to make a real difference to humanity’s relationship with life on Planet Earth.
When you are sick, you go to a doctor. The ocean’s health is in trouble. Where is the doctor for the ocean? The doctor is ocean science. Ocean scientists have to observe very carefully in order to properly diagnose the treatment of such an important patient as the ocean undoubtedly is. So, we need ten years of greatly up-scaled observation to see what is happening on acidification, warming, deoxygenation; to see what is happening to species movement, to currents, and sea levels. And at the end of decade, instead of knowing only 5% about the ocean’s ecosystem, we will know so much more about this incredibly complex ecosystem that fundamentally supports all life on our planet.
What else can we do to save the ocean’s problems? Well the main thing I work for is to ensure that SDG14 is being put into action. I hope you read about SDG14’s ten targets and do what you can to help me in this work.
❝I have great belief in the power of individual to create change❞
Filling the gap between policy and individual action is necessary to achieve SDG14. What kind of policy or regulation do you think is required? What can individual do for SDG14?
Amb. Peter Thomson：It’s interesting question, because, firstly, I have great belief in the power of individual to create change. I really believe that. I have had a lot of personal experience of seeing that in my life. Seeing the way everyone, doesn’t matter how old they are, their gender, or what country they are living in, has the potential to change the way things are done in this world. We have power as consumers, voters, and just as individuals. How we consume things, how we behave towards others and other forms of life. Individuals have huge power to influence their families. The latter shape communities and communities influence governments. Ultimately governments have to respond to peoples’ desires or face the consequences, and young people are now demanding that governments to take more responsible environmental action. I’m very happy to see new regulations coming in from governments around the world about controlling single-use plastic. First, there was one government, then 2 or 3 governments banning single-use plastic, and now every week you can see another government along with cities like San Francisco. It’s worldwide movement. Where did that come from? It came from individual people demanding it be so. So, I think that is one way that we change the world for the better; but of course international discussions, dialogue and agreements are the critical factor which we cannot ever turn our backs to.
As I’ve mentioned, SDG14 has ten targets. Those targets have dates and specific subjects, like ending illegal fishing. We have to meet these targets – all 193 Member States of the United Nations agreed to back in 2015. So States have to take the necessary measures to meet these targets, and we should be putting pressure on governments to do the right things on ending illegal fishing such as signing the FAO Port State Measure Agreement (PSMA), which is the best tool we have to stop the illegal fishing.
We as individuals can also create positive change in this regard. For example, in a restaurant when I order fish I always ask “Is this legally caught fish?” I like eating fish, but I don’t like eating illegal produce, and one in five fish in the world is illegally caught. Sometimes the waiter tells me he doesn’t have a clue, but many times the chef comes from the kitchen and says, “I am really glad you asked, because I go to a lot of trouble to make sure my fish comes from legal and sustainable sources.”
Over 20 billion dollars’ worth of seafood is stolen from the ocean every year - that’s stealing from Nature, it’s stealing from communities and countries. It’s illegal activity, and when you have illegal activity, it associates with other illegal activity like drug-smuggling, contraband, piracy and you might even have modern slavery.
❝Radical change - SDG12. That’s the really the heart of the sustainable development agenda. ❞
What do you think we can do for achieving SDGs?
Amb. Peter Thomson：As I’ve said many times before, what is called for is radical change, not just change. Radically changing our consumption and production is the answer for sustainability of humanity’s security on this planet. We have to move to circular systems rather than linear systems exploiting finite planetary resources. We’ve been taking things out of the ground, using them, then just throwing them away. That is basically what we have been doing all this time since the industry revolution. Logically we have to move to a circular system. That is one radical change required of us.
But the radical change goes down into our individual lives too. Are we still eating red meanwhile knowing the damage it is doing to our environment? Are we still owner-driving internal-combustion cars? I haven’t done either for a long time. I love my grandchildren more than I like beef. I like beef but value my grandchildren’s much more. I haven’t owned a car for a long time and using public transportation is just fine. So, individuals can make choices about their behavior. You get used to change. Now if somebody said, “Peter, here is beautiful new car, a brand new car for you for free.” I would ask them to give it to a charity. Why would I want a car? Where would I park it? I have to drive it through all that snarled city traffic. No thanks! When I was a young guy, the first thing I wanted was a car. It’s liberating when you realize you don’t need one. Buses, trains, and taxies, and walking is better than driving into traffic jams. Look at cities like New York, where I lived for seven years, I think its just silly to own a car there.
So, these kind of behaviors can be changed quickly. Radical change, SDG12 - that’s really the heart of the 2030 Sustainable Development Agenda. For me SDG12 is fundamental to our survival.
What do you think young generation can do for achieving SDGs? What do you expect for young generation?
Amb. Peter Thomson：I would just like to say I am really glad to see you guys. This is actually what is all about. Because if youth are not engaged, this whole effort to save life in the ocean is not going to succeed, and you can say that for all the SDGs. The youth hold the key to our future success. When I was the President of the UN General Assembly, I was quite dismayed at the way the public around the world did not seem to know enough about the SDGs. After all, the SDGs are the plan to save us and the children of this planet. Wherever I go, when I check in at a hotel, or sit in the taxi, or speak to a waiter, I say do you know about the SDGs? Most don’t. Most of the people who know about the SDGs are in government, because when you’re in a government you see the SDGs like, “Oh, this is like a good plan for our nation. We just have to follow this, and our nation will be okay. So, governments know about them , and the same is true for many NGOs. The other sector concentrating on the SDGs is an interesting one; it’s the executive boards of the business corporations of the world. Business knows the SDGs because they are where the future growth for the world economy is going to come from.
But I still not convinced that people know about them. If you look around the world, how many people can tell you what the SDGs are? If you find the answer is not many, then that is a wrong state of affairs. People need to be aware of them and need they to be putting them into practice with a sense of urgency. That is where the youth of today come in, because you guys are the inheritors of our success or failure. 2030 will soon be upon us, so we have work to do. Anyway, I am really pleased to see the way the youth around the world are waking up and mobilizing themselves to address the climate crisis. For me this is great news.
Ambassador Peter Thomson, United Nations Secretary-General's Special Envoy for the Ocean, United Nations.
Peter Thomson is a Fijian diplomat who served as President of the General Assembly of the United Nations from September 2016 until September 2017. He was Fiji’s Permanent Representative to the United Nations between 2010 and 2016. For the year 2014, he was elected President of the Executive Board of the United Nations Development Programme (UNDP), the United Nations Population Fund (UNFPA) and the United Nations Office of Project Services (UNOPS). He led the Fiji team of diplomats that in 2013 chaired the Group of 77 and China – the UN’s largest negotiating group comprised of 133 developing countries. He was elected as President of the International Seabed Authority’s Assembly in 2011 and as President of its Council in 2015. In October 2017, U.N. Secretary-General Antonio Guterres appointed Ambassador Thomson as the first UNSG’s Special Envoy for the Ocean, in which role he is driving the implementation of SDG14, the UN Sustainable Development Agenda’s goal to conserve and sustainably use the resources of the Ocean.
Interviewed in UNHQ, New York in 20th July
Interviewer：Toshio Iwata, Moeko Onuki (Japan)
Edited：Hitomi Shimizu, Toshio Iwata
Special Thanks：Mikiko Nagai (UNU-IAS OUIK)
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